Japan
will hold parliamentary elections on December 16 that will bring a new prime
minister to office, while China remains in the midst of a critical transition
in national leadership. In both countries, foreign and security policies are
points of contention. Tension between Japan and China is running high, largely
focused on the small Senkaku islands in Okinawa, which both countries claim as
sovereign territory but which Japan has had administrative control of for many
years. China’s growing assertiveness throughout the East and South China seas
raises the danger of instability and miscalculation in the region.
The Obama Administration was sufficiently
concerned about these trends that last
month the State Department authorized a semi-official delegation of former top
US foreign policy officials to visit Beijing and Tokyo for talks with leaders in
China and Japan. The delegation included Joseph Nye of Harvard University, who
was chairman of the US National Intelligence Council and a top Pentagon
official in the Clinton Administration; Richard Armitage, deputy secretary of
state in the first George W. Bush administration; Jim Steinberg, deputy
secretary of state for Barack Obama; and Stephen Hadley, national security
advisor to President George. W. Bush.
The
initiative seems to have come from Kurt Campbell, the influential assistant
secretary of state for East Asia, who is close to both Nye and Armitage. Nye
knew Campbell from Harvard, and brought him into the Pentagon in 1994 to
oversee efforts to upgrade the US-Japan security alliance in the post-Cold War
era. Armitage, though out of government at the time, was already well-known as
a staunch advocate of stronger US-Japan security ties, and became something of
a mentor to Campbell. Nye and Campbell later developed a close bipartisan working
relationship centered on deepening US-Japan relations.
Nye and
Armitage were logical choices to deliver a message to Japan and China. But the
Obama administration wanted a slightly larger, while still bipartisan group, so
Republican Hadley and Democrat Steinberg were brought in. The trip was authorized
by Hillary Clinton, presumably with White House approval. The State Department
picked up the expenses, except those portions already paid for by Japan’s Nihon
Keizai Shimbun, which had earlier invited Nye and Armitage to participate in a
symposium on regional security.
The
delegation delivered a written report to Secretary of State Clinton in
mid-November, and later met with her in Washington.
Comments
from several members of the delegation have made it apparent that the main goal
was to clarify to Chinese leaders the firm stance in Washington that the
Senkakus fall within the parameters of the US-Japan Security Treaty. And, in a
somewhat more nuanced fashion, the delegation emphasized to Prime Minister Yoshiko
Noda and other Japanese leaders that
neither side in the Senkaku territorial
dispute should escalate, but rather manage events in a way that precludes the question of US involvement from
ever being broached.
We asked
Professor Nye to further discuss the conclusions he drew from the trip. He
emphasized that he would be speaking only for himself, and not other members of
the delegation. The interview was originally conducted for Weekly Toyo Keizai, and appears in the magazine’s November 24
issue. (PE)
DISPATCH
JAPAN: How dangerous is the current conflict between Japan and China over the
Senkakus?
NYE: I
don’t think it is dangerous in the sense that someone is sitting around
planning an attack. But it is a danger in the sense that events on the ground
or close to the islands could escalate in a climate of populist nationalism in
both countries, and may take governments beyond where they want to be. It is
worth remembering that the 2010 incident seems to have occurred when a drunken
Chinese trawler captain rammed a Japanese Coast Guard vessel.
DISPATCH
JAPAN: Is there a broader strategy underlying China’s approach to the Senkakus,
or is a Japan-China dynamic primarily at work?
NYE:
Chinese regard Japan as having changed the status quo by having the central
government purchase the islands from the private owner. China has not accepted
Prime Minister Noda’s public explanation that he took that step to prevent
Governor Ishihara from having the Tokyo municipality purchase the islands,
which could have caused mischief.
The
Chinese think there is a large plan by Japan to erode what they call “the
outcome” of World War II. I don’t know how much of that is pure rhetoric, or
represents the real thinking in China. But that is what senior Chinese say.
DISPATCH
JAPAN: What is your assessment? Is it rhetoric, or real thinking?
NYE: I
think a lot of Chinese really believe that Japan is trying to erode the status
quo. I think others are using that line in an effort to create a wedge between
the US and Japan.
DISPATCH
JAPAN: Some analysts argue that until the incoming Chinese leadership
consolidates power, it may feel compelled to maintain a hard line toward Japan.
NYE: If
your concern is a populist-nationalism, then a period of political transition
is probably one of the most difficult times to exercise restraint, because
nobody wants to be seen as less willing to defend the motherland than their
political rivals.
If you
look at China’s blogosphere, you see that there is considerable nationalism in
the country. Some of it is manipulated by the top Chinese leaders. But a lot of
it is indigenous, without manipulation.
DISPATCH
JAPAN: How do Japan and China get out of this stalemate? Are there practical
steps that could show progress, or is this likely to be a long-term problem?
NYE: I
suspect the problem will be around for some time. Look back at 1972, when then-prime
ministers Kakuei Tanaka and Zhou Enlai basically agreed to kick the can down
the road. Tanaka had raised the issue, and Zhou Enlai said the two countries
were not going to resolve the issue at that time, and the issue should not
disrupt the process or normalizing ties.
That
became the status quo, with both sides retaining their claims to sovereignty,
but with Japan retaining administrative control after the United States
returned the islands as part of Okinawa reversion.
That
status quo basically persisted until Governor Ishihara tried to purchase the
islands for Tokyo. That, in turn, led the Chinese to conclude that the long-standing
status quo was gone, and could not return.
So, what
can be done? The best we can hope is to get the issue off the front burner of
the stove so that it does not boil over and spoil the other dishes.
DISPATCH
JAPAN: You’ve mentioned possibly reviving the framework for joint development
of oil and gas reserves in the area.
NYE: If
you can get to a situation where the issue is treated with a low posture, where
it is not playing a role in China’s political transition or in the upcoming
Japanese elections, then several things might be possible. There is the idea
put forward by the London Economist
to take the six square kilometers of what is basically rock, and create a marine
sanctuary with no human habitation but devoted to fish and birds, to the
benefit of the ecology of the region.
That
would not resolve the sovereignty issue. The Senkakus would still be regarded
by Japan as its sovereign territory. But devoting the territory to the broader
good of the region might help diffuse the issue.
In
addition, it would be beneficial to revive agreements for joint exploration of
some of the undersea resources, including oil and gas, in the East China Sea.
There are some fields that straddle the line between Japan and China. The idea
is to create an atmosphere in which the Senkaku issue could be more easily
managed.
DISPATCH
JAPAN: Is the onus on Japan to make these proposals? Where will the impetus
come from?
NYE: Japan
has administrative control. Japan could say that, while maintaining its
sovereign rights, we are hereby dedicating these six square kilometers to
marine ecology. I don’t think this would satisfy the Chinese, but it might take
the issue off the front burner, and reduce the dangers of landing of troops,
habitation or other actions that would serve as a red flag to the Chinese. The
Chinese would protest that they still maintain their claims to sovereignty, but
you wouldn’t have provocative actions of the sort that Governor Ishihara might
suggest.
DISPATCH
JAPAN: There are some questions in Japan about what exactly the United States
would do in the event of a deeply provocative action by China with respect to
the Senkakus. The US is a war-weary country. Is it realistic to expect US
Marines to be involved?
NYE: I
don’t think so. We can try to solve this, or at least manage this problem,
well-short of that. Both Secretary of State Clinton and Defense Secretary
Panetta have made clear that Article 5 of the US-Japan Security Treaty covers
the Senkaku islands because they are part of the territory returned to Japan in
1972. But we have also made clear that each side should manage the problem in a
way that ensures it never reaches that point.
DISPATCH
JAPAN: Japan now finds itself in the uncomfortable position of having
territorial disputes simultaneously with Russia, China, and Korea. Does this
reflect poor strategic thinking in Japan?
NYE:
Japan has to think through its relations with both China and Korea. It does
Japan no good to have things harken back to the 1930s. Japan today is so much
different. But occasionally there are politicians in Japan who take actions
that instead of looking to the future look to the past.
That is
something that Japanese strategists have to grapple with.
But
thinking strategically, and thinking politically in the context of an impending
election, are often very different things.
DISPATCH
JAPAN: Are you concerned that a populist-nationalism in Japan could disrupt the
country’s diplomacy?
NYE:
Japanese with whom I speak during my visits really are thinking of moderate
positions. But I did not speak with Governor Ishihara or Mayor Hashimoto. The
question is whether they will refrain from stirring up populist-nationalism in
the context of a competition for political power. Otherwise, among the people I
know and speak with, everyone from students, to businessmen, to Diet members, I
do not see any signs of a dangerous nationalism at this point. But there are
some people who would like to stir up dangerous nationalism.
DISPATCH
JAPAN: Would it be wise for Japan to consider some kind of quick resolution of
the Takeshima dispute with Korea, so as to better focus on managing relations
with a rising China?
NYE: If
one thinks strategically, Japan should be asking itself how to improve
relations with Korea. Takeshima/Dokdo is part of that.
I am
also concerned about talk of revising the Kono Statement from the 1990s
regarding Korean ‘comfort women.’ Japan should not shoot itself in the foot.
Japan does not need this. It makes no sense to appeal to history in an unfavorable
way, when the country should be thinking about the future and improving
relations with Korea.
DISPATCH
JAPAN: Do you see any significant movement in Japan toward development of
nuclear weapons?
NYE: No,
I do not. Japan obviously could develop nuclear weapons. This came up at a
recent conference on security issues in Japan organized by Nikkei, and again in
front of a large audience of students at Waseda University that Rich Armitage
and I addressed.
There
was a polling device available at both events allowing audience members to
express their views. There was not any indication of a strong desire for
development in Japan of nuclear weapons. There are always some voices in favor,
but it remains a very small minority view.
There is
a desire to have a stronger Japan capable of participating in collective self
defense. But that is not necessarily a desire for a nuclear arsenal.
DISPATCH
JAPAN: Why has the talk in Japan about phasing out all use of civilian nuclear
energy caused so much concern in Washington?
NYE: Last
summer, Rich Armitage and I expressed concern in our report that Japan would
not be able to give up nuclear energy entirely and still be able to sustain the
kind of economic growth we all would like to see in Japan. Our major concern
was the effect that eliminating nuclear energy would have on the Japanese
economy.
We also
said that having Japan as a participant in the global civil nuclear energy regime
puts another ‘good guy’ at the table. Japan is concerned about safety, and
safeguards. And one of Japan’s most distinguished diplomats, Yukiya Amano, is
head of the IAEA. So we came out in favor of Japan maintaining civilian nuclear
energy, though we understand that there is considerable controversy in the wake
of the Tohoku tragedy.